как с работой в америке для програмистов

[Oza]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Нашла в Киеве еще один сертификационный центр, кроме "Квазар-микро" - Microsoft & Thomson Prometric. Ул. Андреевская,15 (М."Поштова площа"). Тел. 537-22-60, 416-02-31, 417-07-05

[Eugene]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Хоть и "Delphi is dead", все равно собираюсь работать программистом . Каковы шансы найти работу для разработчика БД под Oracle, MS SQL, Postgre SQL, Interbase? Имею хороший опыт работы со всеми этими СУБД.

[Americanka]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Oracle востребован. Но как правило для работы с БД требуется наличие security clearance, а это только для граждан.

[Dmitry Belyavsky]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

VladS,

Вы рассказали очень много интересного. Я теперь более критично отношусь к своему experience



Может подскажете как там рынок труда для С, C++ программистов на Unix (в частности AIX, Linux86, Sun Solaris).

Еще один вопрос, а если опыт работы около 5 лет не американский, но с американской крупной кампанией?

[VladS]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

dimas писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 08:56
VladS,

Вы рассказали очень много интересного. Я теперь более критично отношусь к своему experience



Может подскажете как там рынок труда для С, C++ программистов на Unix (в частности AIX, Linux86, Sun Solaris).

Еще один вопрос, а если опыт работы около 5 лет не американский, но с американской крупной кампанией?

I personaly believe that really good C/C++/Unix programers with some administration and scripting(!) skills will always be able to find a gooood job. All big companies run Unix servers or mainframes (yes!) at their data centers. And the investment of work and knowledge and money in this technology is hard to imagine - no one can afford to switch horses. I often go to companies like Citibank, Credit Swiss First Boston, Verizon, United Nations - to update apps which are in production for 10! years - sometimes the source code is lost but app is up and running.



Experience with real American company will count, if you are able provide names of your American manager - who your prospective employer may call and ask about you in plain English. Start collecting their bussines cards and ask whether you may count on their refernce. Those who agree - will be your most valuable asset keep their contact info in safe deposit box in well guarded bank.



Advise on the side - if you work for well-known american company you may try to ... not empphasise that work was done in Russia - just put position name and job description - but don't volunteer info that you were actually sitting in Hacapetovka and dialed in.



The thing russian programmers often miss - is that your appearence, body language, your English do matter. As indians now dominate this niche of job market - you have to be better then them in all aspects including speaking language, communication skills, self-confidence and proximity to american culture.



At the company I work for there are 4 "russians" including me - and at least other three (except me - i spent to much time on forums like this) are considered to be outstanding workers - reliable, highly quilified, well behaved, intelligent, and really able to push the envelope. But this does not lead automatically to hiring more russians - it looks like company hires H1-b indians who look much more energetic, who usualy speak better english - and who are not reliable and eat rice with their bare hands.



You ability to laugh to their jokes and to joke yourself in plain english is as important as you programer skills. Believe me!

[VladS]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Americanka писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 08:14
Oracle востребован. Но как правило для работы с БД требуется наличие security clearance, а это только для граждан.

Green card usually is enough. I know one illegal immigrant who works for Boeing - while Boeing does require citizenship. But for most of big financial institutions Green card or H1-b is enough.

[VladS]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Eugene писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 03:22
Хоть и "Delphi is dead", все равно собираюсь работать программистом . Каковы шансы найти работу для разработчика БД под Oracle, MS SQL, Postgre SQL, Interbase? Имею хороший опыт работы со всеми этими СУБД.

Privet zemlyaku! Ne v nizkih li temperaturah ili monokristallah trudish'sya?



There is no such thing as razrabotchik - you either application programer who is able to incorporate database access into app OR db administrator - the person who keeps watch on app programers and whose job to make the life of them harder by imposing security, fail-over, integrity and so on.



As Posgress and interbase are not very popular, to get a position with Oracle or SQL Server or Sybase or DB2 you have to be certified by Oracle or Microsoft or Sybase or IBM. The idea is simple - in real world these companies do want you to be certified - even exams some times have hidden marketing charge.

Employer also whants independent assesment of one's skills.

Anyway the job market is saturated with programers, so newcomers have to be as competitive as their competitors.



I wrote somewhere already, that in my opinion I would wait till Dow-Jones index hits 11000 and only then enter American job market - before that happens the chances to find a good job are really slim;-(

[Americanka]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

VladS писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 21:26

Americanka писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 08:14
Oracle востребован. Но как правило для работы с БД требуется наличие security clearance, а это только для граждан.

Green card usually is enough. I know one illegal immigrant who works for Boeing - while Boeing does require citizenship. But for most of big financial institutions Green card or H1-b is enough.

Для Нью-Йорка может быть и достаточно. А в нашем регионе без гражданства устроиться по специальности, связанной с БД, практически невозможно. Есть конечно исключения, но это единицы. Даже грин-карт не спасает. Я уже не говорю о H1.

[VladS]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Americanka писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 22:09
Для Нью-Йорка может быть и достаточно. А в нашем регионе без гражданства устроиться по специальности, связанной с БД, практически невозможно. Есть конечно исключения, но это единицы. Даже грин-карт не спасает. Я уже не говорю о H1.

That's cool. I 'd like to work somewhere where only citizens work - meaning mostly white americans. Whatever people say, I prefer to work with americans because they are professional, and positive, and friendly.

[Eugene]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Americanka писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 22:09
Для Нью-Йорка может быть и достаточно. А в нашем регионе без гражданства устроиться по специальности, связанной с БД, практически невозможно. Есть конечно исключения, но это единицы. Даже грин-карт не спасает. Я уже не говорю о H1.

Интересно, а из какого региона Americanka?

[Eugene]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

VladS писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 21:49




Privet zemlyaku! Ne v nizkih li temperaturah ili monokristallah trudish'sya?



There is no such thing as razrabotchik - you either application programer who is able to incorporate database access into app OR db administrator - the person who keeps watch on app programers and whose job to make the life of them harder by imposing security, fail-over, integrity and so on.



As Posgress and interbase are not very popular, to get a position with Oracle or SQL Server or Sybase or DB2 you have to be certified by Oracle or Microsoft or Sybase or IBM. The idea is simple - in real world these companies do want you to be certified - even exams some times have hidden marketing charge.

Employer also whants independent assesment of one's skills.

Anyway the job market is saturated with programers, so newcomers have to be as competitive as their competitors.



I wrote somewhere already, that in my opinion I would wait till Dow-Jones index hits 11000 and only then enter American job market - before that happens the chances to find a good job are really slim;-(

Очень приятно пообщаться с бывшим (но, надеюсь, в душе и нстоящим) харьковчанином!!!

К сожалению (а может и к счастью )ни в "монокристаллах", ни в "низких температурах" не работал.

Спасибо за полезную информацию. Буду пытаться тут получить сертификаты, хоть это и достаточно проблематично (в финансовом плане). И еще один вопрос : what is "Dow-Jones"? Судя по-всему какая-то популярная система тестирования IT-специалистов?

[Dmitry Belyavsky]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

VladS писал(а) Wed, 29 September 2004 21:01


I personaly believe that really good C/C++/Unix programers with some administration and scripting(!) skills will always be able to find a gooood job. All big companies run Unix servers or mainframes (yes!) at their data centers. And the investment of work and knowledge and money in this technology is hard to imagine - no one can afford to switch horses. I often go to companies like Citibank, Credit Swiss First Boston, Verizon, United Nations - to update apps which are in production for 10! years - sometimes the source code is lost but app is up and running.



Experience with real American company will count, if you are able provide names of your American manager - who your prospective employer may call and ask about you in plain English. Start collecting their bussines cards and ask whether you may count on their refernce. Those who agree - will be your most valuable asset keep their contact info in safe deposit box in well guarded bank.



Advise on the side - if you work for well-known american company you may try to ... not empphasise that work was done in Russia - just put position name and job description - but don't volunteer info that you were actually sitting in Hacapetovka and dialed in.



The thing russian programmers often miss - is that your appearence, body language, your English do matter. As indians now dominate this niche of job market - you have to be better then them in all aspects including speaking language, communication skills, self-confidence and proximity to american culture.



At the company I work for there are 4 "russians" including me - and at least other three (except me - i spent to much time on forums like this) are considered to be outstanding workers - reliable, highly quilified, well behaved, intelligent, and really able to push the envelope. But this does not lead automatically to hiring more russians - it looks like company hires H1-b indians who look much more energetic, who usualy speak better english - and who are not reliable and eat rice with their bare hands.



You ability to laugh to their jokes and to joke yourself in plain english is as important as you programer skills. Believe me!

Спсибо VladS за подробный ответ. Попробую поработать в направлении сбора координат моих менеджеров Их много, но они далеко в Калифорнии и шансов получить их визитки у меня наверное нет :-\ Да и вообще-то я еще не получил визу, хотя уже выиграл гринкард и номер небольшой.

Очень интересная тема - американский юмор. Некоторый эмигранты говорят что мы никогда не сможем его понять, как и американцы наш юмор. Хотя я согласен, что для поддержания хороших отношений в коллективе улыбка и хорошая шутка время от времени просто незаменимы

Unfortunately, the company name is too well-known to not emphasize that the place of job is not in the USA

[Americanka]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Eugene писал(а) Thu, 30 September 2004 03:37
Интересно, а из какого региона Americanka?

Я живу в пригороде Вашингтона. В наш регион входит 3 штата - Maryland, Virginia, DC. Почему требуется гражданство для многих позиций - это скорее всего потому, что очень много государственных контор. И именно goverment требует наличия security clearance. Но то, что там работают mostly white americans (как написал VladS) - это заблуждение. Гос.сектор на 90% состоит из черных. И это не только у нас. По роду работы приходится бывать в разных городах Америки. Заказчики у нас в основном из гос.сектора. Везде такая же картина...

[Americanka]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Могу добавить сюда же наиболее популярные вопросы, которые задают на интервью. От того как вы ответите на эти вопросы во многом определяется возьмут ли вас на работу в эту компанию или нет. Это относится только для интервью, если вы устраиваетесь на работу по специальности. Для низкооплачиваемых работ таких интервью не устраивают.



10 most common interview questions:

- Tell me about yourself.

- Why did you leave or are you leaving your last position?

- What do you know about this company?

- What are your goals?

- What are your strengths and weaknesses?

- Why do you want to work for this company?

- What has been your most significant achievement?

- How would your last boss and colleagues describe you?

- Why should we hire you?

- What are your salary expectations?

[VladS]

Re: как с работой в америке для програмистов

Americanka писал(а) Thu, 30 September 2004 09:55


10 most common interview questions:

- Tell me about yourself.

- Why did you leave or are you leaving your last position?

- What do you know about this company?

- What are your goals?

- What are your strengths and weaknesses?

- Why do you want to work for this company?

- What has been your most significant achievement?

- How would your last boss and colleagues describe you?

- Why should we hire you?

- What are your salary expectations?

Americanka has not mentioned the most important thing - all these quistions are tricky questions and not even single one can be taken by its face value. The most difficult is the first question. There are tons of books and internet sites which teach you how to answer this question. In real life it has nothing to do with your personality - it is a chance to the candidate to SELL his skills to the company. One is not expected to say: well... i was born in Russia to the engineer and homemaker.

What is expected is :

i am highly profesional person in the field...,

I know this and this and that in particular will help your company,and bla-bla,bla and

I bring value to the company, and

i am good teamplayer ,

i like to work for (small, medium, big - depending what company size is) because its (robust, well established, world-famous) and so on.



The whole interveiw is just sales event where you are selling yourself. Everybody knows that this is a game - the most licemernaya game I ever saw. One is judged on the basis of how good he/she is in that game - you demonstrating your proximity to the american bussines culture and ethics - and this is extremely important.



Our mentality - at least the one which was common 7 years ago -

"ne vysovyvaysya, bud' skromen, ne govori ya,ya,ya" - is absolutely unthinkable here. Self-confidence but without shapkozakidatel'stvo - is a mandatory.



Goto to the [url]www.monster.com , create account and read every article they have.



All the best!